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Fri, 01 Mar 2024 20:38:44 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 12:03:50 +0100

kuchinster@hub.hubzilla.de

In the text below the picture a French lie, the right image of the statue of liberty was the Greek Hecate.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Hecate&tbm=isch
#history

Part_of You schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Fri, 01 Mar 2024 15:40:05 +0100

:-)
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Sat, 02 Mar 2024 03:23:30 +0100

Part_of You

part_of_you@diaspora.psyco.fr

It's not a "French lie" at all, officially "the French" does not say that, the narrative likely comes from someone from Morocco.

Sat, 02 Mar 2024 03:50:32 +0100

techriot (inlägg med hubzilla)

techriot@hub.natehiggers.org

@Part_of You no, it seems as if the official narrative is that, the sculptor, was inspired by these people, which seems believable when that context is observed.

Sat, 02 Mar 2024 11:33:10 +0100

Part_of You

part_of_you@diaspora.psyco.fr

Well, that's absolutely not what I see and understand. What are your sources? In the link I've send somewhere on the other thread, it explains that the tribe using this headornament was not even colonized at this time and was in south of Morocco. Where Bartholdi has never been. It's difficult to believe that we would not know he has made a trip to morocco, considering what was a trip like this at this time and all what it would have implied for him to go there.

Sat, 02 Mar 2024 21:12:45 +0100

techriot (inlägg med hubzilla)

techriot@hub.natehiggers.org

@Part_of You I don't remember anyone, especially me, using any words remotely associated with colonization. Where are your sources for that claim? As I have said in my previous post, the writing accompanying the photo clearly states that the sculptor was inspired by these people. Why exactly are you here?

Sat, 02 Mar 2024 22:29:06 +0100

Part_of You

part_of_you@diaspora.psyco.fr

I am here because I've originally posted this, you reposted it and Kuchinster commented on your repost saying :

In the text below the picture a French lie. The right image of the statue of liberty was the Greek Hecate.

So I searched a bit, and from what I found, I think that Kuchinster is right, this story with Amazigh origin is false and i've given a link in French explaining why. That I hope you guys have translated for you because there was a lot of details. I don't think the statue of liberty was the Greek Hecate but inspired by, yes.

And honestly guys when I see the imaginary stories you went in in your comments, I was a bit puzzled.... You wrote > However, the premise was, that the sculptor used the women of the Amazigh presumably, as his muse. That could be, credible, I think.....

You can think what you want, as everybody, but please have a look at the French link. The history and inspirations of the designer are quite well known. And the only Amazigh tribe wearing such a head ornament was not even colonized, and was in Morocco, were the guy has never been. That's why I've originally talked about colonization. Because the guy at this time could NOT have went to see that tribe or even region without such a hard trip noticed in his official life history.

Now I've given the 'sources for my claim'. It seems you absolutely take no account of any historic known details I had already pointed. This link explain in which year a Moroccan photograph has posted on internet modern photos of women of that tribe with this ornament, and explain that 2 years later, in 2012, the story in the image has appeared.

But you, you wrote:

it seems as if the official narrative is that, the sculptor, was inspired by these people, which seems believable when that context is observed.

I am French and I've never ever heard such a narrative, which precisely does not seems believable when the context is observed. Already explained, source is French link again.

So if you can/are kind enough to explain me why you think that it is the French officiel narrative, or any sources for that statement, I am interested. That's all. If you just imagine theories from what you seem to very badly understand, that's your right, but has not the same value.

Sun, 03 Mar 2024 03:44:46 +0100

techriot (inlägg med hubzilla)

techriot@hub.natehiggers.org

@Part_of You Indeed, I read what had been said on that photo, which you presumably posted and it says right on that photo that, Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi, the French sculptor, who designed the thing was inspired by the Amazigh, that's what I referred to, as being the original narrative. Only because @kuchinster and I were discussing that particular photo.

I'll go read your link, just to gain more insight into why this is so important to you. Either way, it's an interesting story and all it has done, is to have me brushing up on my Greek mythology and I've been researching these Amazigh people.

Whatever theories, presumptions or speculations, that @kuchinster and I conclude, aren't written in stone and are purely for discussionary, educational and on my part especially, conspiratorial. It's not meant to offend you or anyone else intentionally, or not. From my perspective, you've done me a favor. You have posted an image, with French words, that could easily be discounted, overlooked or ignored. Yet, we made a big deal out of it and turned it into a topic for discussion, have linked our discussion, with Greek mythology and we have learned about some very artistic Bedouins. One could argue that you have done your good deed for the day.

Sun, 03 Mar 2024 04:11:26 +0100

techriot (inlägg med hubzilla)

techriot@hub.natehiggers.org

@Part_of You I visited and read your original post I've seen our discussion, being put in the proper context I haven't concluded if the story is true or false. It could well be irrelevant. What I did appreciate was the discussion and the discovery. I've read one of your links, this one, which states that the story is a fallacy.

It doesn't really matter to me if it is or not since I am intrigued with following the trail of metaphorical bread crumbs. Do you see where it has led me? I haven't concluded if the story is true or false, to me, that is to be determined later. Indeed, it is the discovery, the discovery and the eventual unravelling of truth and motivations. For instance, it would help me greatly, if I were to understand, your motivation for posting the image in the first place. What were you thinking when you did it? What emotions were you hoping to elicit from potential readers and viewers?

Sun, 03 Mar 2024 10:59:56 +0100

Part_of You

part_of_you@diaspora.psyco.fr

Ok, I understand better now. Originally I hesitated a bit but I reposted that image --knowing that I was not sure at all of its veracity-- mainly because I know a bit the very interesting history of some Berbers tribes/groups, let's say I am sensitive to this topic. I've been in some parts of North-Africa and met locals there, like Kabyles, which are Berbers from a north Algerian region, and Bedouins/Touaregs/Amazighs from Sahara, etc. But it's a lesson for me, if I were to do it again (post), now I won't:), because it was more a personal motivation/sensibility without any checking of the life nor inspiration of the guy. I did not had any clear projections regarding potential emotions of potential viewers, to the contrary I knew somewhere that it was not so clever to post this without any checking. Furthermore I always tend to think that people can, and have to, check by themselves, like Kunchister did, but more and more I realize few are doing it. Myself I only did a minimal research and as you can see I mainly trust one article and that's all, because I am not an Historian and that's not a sooo important topic for me.

Sun, 03 Mar 2024 11:16:04 +0100

Part_of You

part_of_you@diaspora.psyco.fr

And I add that for me, considering the USA bloody history and acts, that fu*%!ng statue represents more the Liberty To Kill of the yankees.

Sun, 03 Mar 2024 11:33:56 +0100

techriot (inlägg med hubzilla)

techriot@hub.natehiggers.org

@Part_of You I think you did a good thing, I never know if anything is really true unless I search it out and between you and @kuchinster, with this post, I learned a lot. Plus, I have a soft spot for nomads too. I also appreciate good stories, whether they are fact or fiction. I always maintain that even before man had fire, he had good stories, indeed, even if the stories weren't that good, they're a staple of the human condition, stories are. The true story of the motivation behind the Statue of Liberty, seems like a good story to explore. We know what the real, official, narrative is, but what if it's a lie or just partially accurate and there's a whole different story that is behind it?

That's what I was playing with, just some speculation, trying to get to a story and I'm still working on this one. I think that there may be something about that Greek goddess myth. If there is something there, how does it relate to people who have lived in North Africa for thousands of years. I'm sure that over the centuries, their ancestors had to meet Greeks, since the people in North Africa, had contacts with many from the ancient world. It's incredible how one, easily discarded, discounted, photo can, for some reason, awaken the imagination. Since the story about the Amazigh, is rumored to be false, I'm beginning to like the Hecate, origins story. You say that you are French, have you ever heard anything that linked the two, that is, the statue and the goddess, at any time? How often do conversations involving a French statue, gifted to New York, come up in conversations, anyway?

I think that my friend @kuchinster, may be the first to make that connection and I think that he may be on to something. I'd love to hear your thoughts, whenever you have some time. Thank you. As for me, my mind is ripe with speculations of nefarious, occult, motivational, symbolism. However, I love stories, words and word play. The languages do not deter that fact either. I think that I may love some languages, most of all. So, let me know what you think, I will appreciate it.