Yes, it's that bad

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Duothematic channel. Primary topic is virtual worlds/OpenSim, secondary topic is the Fediverse beyond Mastodon. Follow me from Mastodon or anywhere else in the Fediverse.

Ort:: The Hypergrid

Geschlecht:: Männlich

Homepage:: https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/profile/jupiter_rowland

Yes, it's that bad

Sun, 18 Feb 2024 10:56:16 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 10:55:48 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Mastodon is the Internet Explorer 6 of the Fediverse; CW: long (almost 2,000 characters), Fediverse meta, "anti-Mastodon" Fediverse meta

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Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:13:23 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:12:56 +0100

Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)

laxla@tech.lgbt

Mastodon is the Internet Explorer 6 of the Fediverse; CW: long (almost 2,000 characters), Fediverse meta, "anti-Mastodon" Fediverse meta

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Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:37:56 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:37:28 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Laxystem One developer has actually taken this into consideration: @Mike Macgirvin 🖥️, creator of Friendica (2010), the Red Matrix (2012, officially discontinued in 2015) and Hubzilla (2015) and creator and maintainer of the streams repository.

(streams), as what comes out of this repository is colloquially called while actually being intentionally nameless, has a vastly different conversation model than Mastodon. It has inherited it from Hubzilla which has inherited it from Friendica which, in turn, was inspired by Facebook rather than by Twitter. All three define conversations as one (1) post plus many comments firmly attached to that post whereas Mastodon defines them as a bunch of posts loosely tied together.

Also, all three have always had support for groups/forums which are nothing but user accounts/channels with specific permission settings plus automatic forwarding of incoming posts under certain circumstances. And they've got means of moderation that go beyond what everything else in the Fediverse has to offer and way beyond what Mastodon has.

At least on Hubzilla and (streams), maybe also on Friendica, if you post something, you're the moderator of your own comments thread. You can decide who gets to comment and who doesn't, and you can delete comments. That's because it's you who owns the comments and not whoever writes them.

As Mike has found out, all this can be done in standard ActivityPub, not only to the extents like on Friendica which has successfully switched from its own DFRN to ActivityPub, but even on (streams) which goes the farthest of the three.

However, this still won't work with Mastodon. For starters, Mastodon doesn't know groups, so it doesn't understand groups. This goes to the point where Mastodon users interact with e.g. the Friendica forum Fediverse News, thinking they're interacting with a single Mastodon user who manually boosts everything that comes from there. User-moderated content is even more alien to Mastodon.

Mike is currently reworking (streams)' conversation model into containers that work with the ActivityPub standard without requiring any hacks, also to increase (streams)' compatibility with ActivityPub. But he recently complained how making it more compatible with standard ActivityPub would make it even less compatible with Mastodon which doesn't even support these parts of ActivityPub because it hasn't implemented them itself.

So he had the choice. Either he'd include a bunch of nasty hacks so that Mastodon understands it. Or he flips Mastodon the bird and sticks to the ActivityPub spec.

Practically all Hubzilla and (streams) users who commented on this encouraged him to do the latter. It might mean that (streams) will appear "broken" to Mastodon users, most of whom think that Mastodon = the standard. But precious few Mastodon users use groups in the first place anyway.

Mike himself reconsidered and made (streams) groups compatible with Mastodon because Mastodon needs groups after almost eight years of not having any.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta

Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:52:55 +0100

PepeCyB

pepecyb8806@klacker.org

Mastodon is the Internet Explorer 6 of the Fediverse; CW: long (almost 2,000 characters), Fediverse meta, "anti-Mastodon" Fediverse meta

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Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:58:29 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 12:07:51 +0100

Laxystem (Masto/Glitch)

laxla@tech.lgbt

@jupiter_rowland @mikedev huh. We're ourselves in the middle of the same-ish problem. Not sure if #ProjectGimli should go "fuck mastodon", or try to support it. Because Gimli has many similar features to Hubzilla, (streams) and Friendica as you've explained here.

It's based on Jekyll + Disqus and Discord, not Twitter nor Facebook, and has lots of features designed in a way that theoretically support Mastodon. But the actual way stuff will be implemented within AcitivityPub... Mastodon forces us to do cursed stuff with usernames etc -- tho 50% of a poll said we should just use numeral IDs for usernames, and the other 50% said we should go "fuck mastodon" (no one voted on the other options). Idk, should we keep trying to stay compatible with mastodon, or..?

Idk, really.

Sun, 18 Feb 2024 12:48:35 +0100

Mike Macgirvin 🖥️

mikedev@fediversity.site

That's correct. But constrained conversations are getting a special "briefcase" icon to let you know that what you're seeing represents a complete conversation addressed to a specific audience.

If it doesn't have the icon, it's a partial snapshot of some possibly related posts representing the portion of the conversation we were able to track down.

They don't need an icon - they stick out like a sore thumb, but I was thinking a rubbish bin would be appropriate.