Jupiter Rowland

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Duothematic channel. Primary topic is virtual worlds/OpenSim, secondary topic is the Fediverse beyond Mastodon. Follow me from Mastodon or anywhere else in the Fediverse.

Ort:: The Hypergrid

Geschlecht:: Männlich

Homepage:: https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/profile/jupiter_rowland

Thu, 21 Mar 2024 10:13:20 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 10:13:02 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Hubzilla lingo; CW: Fediverse meta, non-Mastodon Fediverse meta, Twitter mentioned

Artikel ansehen

Fediverse Things to know about Hubzilla

show all 7 comments

Thu, 21 Mar 2024 10:13:33 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 10:13:14 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Mastodon: quote-post, quote-toot (perceived as a slander and harassment tool)
Hubzilla: share (what it does instead of boosting)

Mastodon: CW
Hubzilla: summary

Mastodon: personal timeline
Hubzilla: channel stream

Mastodon: local timeline
Hubzilla: pubstream (if it's local only)

Mastodon: federated timeline
Hubzilla: pubstream (if it includes posts from other instances)

2/2

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta

Thu, 21 Mar 2024 12:45:19 +0100

Improve People? or just Tech?

freeschool@qoto.org

Hubzilla lingo / vocabulary; CW: Fediverse meta, non-Mastodon Fediverse meta, Twitter

Artikel ansehen

Thu, 21 Mar 2024 13:00:17 +0100

tallship

tallship@zotum.net

@Jupiter Rowland

I loathe that term **toot**, and am so very glad that Eugen abandoned that term in favor of the more correctly understood **post**. He also calls what you refer to above in Hubzilla terms as, "share", a **quote-post**. Misskey variants call **boosts*** **"renotes"** (syntactically more correct - they're 'notes'), and **quotes**, but above you mention that Hubzilla calls them **shares**.

I suppose that's one way they can be referenced, and you point out that this is what is performed instead of boosting, but I should point out that the **share** in Hubzilla is actually the equivalent of a **Quote-Post** on other platforms, while a **boost** on other platforms (again, **renote**, in most of the Misskey family forks) is referred to as a **repeat** on Hubzilla.

I'm not understanding why you did one of those self-inflicted hell-threads (1/1, 2/2, whatev...). Were you making fun of mastopub? Coz if you were, I'm in on that joke. If you weren't, I don't understand why, since you're certainly not limited by any paltry, 500 character count limit like those on mastotron instances.

All in all, I'm glad you drew such syntactical distinctions between (Primarily) mastospeak, but also, it's not just mastotron - Boost (renote), Quote-Post (quote), Reply/Comment, Account, and Instance, are the general terms used throughout the Fediverse with respect to ActivityPub powered platforms (Misskey terms were in parentheses). In Hubzilla (the ZOT6 Powered portion of the Fediverse), We indeed use the term **Hubs** instead of **Instances** and we use the term **Pods** when referring to the Diaspora protocol powered portions of the Fediverse.

In simple *usual terminology*, we do use *instance*, *account*, and *server*, rather ubuquitously however, throughout the on-Prem Intranet and LAN worlds and the Internet in general.

One other noteworthy point should be mentioned too. Prior to the release of masto version 4.x, in the late 3.x series, the word **toot** was actually completely and unceremoniously retired. so that nowadays, when you are ready to send it into the ether, you click on the button that says, **Publish**, which I find quite accurate and appropriate :)

In Friendica, there's the pencil & paper icon, hovering over that says, "create new post" in the tool tip. Once the editor opens, instead of **Publish**, the post button says, **Share**. In Hubzilla, it's **Submit**, very accurate from the standpoint of what you're doing with the "form", but what you're really doing is actually *publishing* your work.

In Misskey proper, it's a **Note** button that you click, with a little pencil icon, that launches the editor, and again, you click on another **Note* button in the editor that has a paper airplane icon to indicate that you're publishing (submitting) your "post".

But it's all just the preferred UI of the individual devs. the actual ActivityStreams / ActivityPub lexicon doesn't change. for Example, When you publish an article on other Misskey forks, for example, ***Iceshrimp*** and ***Catodon*** what you saw as a **Note** in both cases on the submit buttons in Misskey, are both labelled as **Post** and **Post** in these Misskey forks.

Perhaps, in some respects, Misskey is the most correct of all of them (I'm not sure what they're referred to in ZOT), because most ActivityPub powered platforms in the Fediverse publish all of their Articles and posts as ***Notes***, and although there's almost zero practical distinction, there are other types, including ***Articles***, but mastopub only publishes notes, and that's precisely what Misskey calls them - notes. I'm actually not sure if Misskey supports other types however, say, for the blog type post that they also accommodate - much like Hubzilla and Friendica :)

Well thanks on your quick comparison and I suppose I'll add this as installment #3 so....

3/3 (lolz)

#tallship #user_terminology #UI_Lexicon #UX #post #note #publish #boost #repeat #share #renote #quote_post #quote #instance #hub #pod #ActivityPub #ZOT6 #diaspora

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Fri, 22 Mar 2024 02:20:37 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 02:20:16 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@tallship

I'm not understanding why you did one of those self-inflicted hell-threads (1/1, 2/2, whatev...). Were you making fun of mastopub? Coz if you were, I'm in on that joke. If you weren't, I don't understand why, since you're certainly not limited by any paltry, 500 character count limit like those on mastotron instances.

The target audience of these posts are Mastodon users. Mastodon users who are largely clueless about the Fediverse beyond Mastodon and particularly about Hubzilla.

I've been around Mastodon users a lot. And I know that many of them absolutely refuse to read anything over 500 characters. Some actually mute or even block anyone from whom they find a post with over 500 characters in their federated timeline.

So if I posted as if I posted for a Hubzilla audience, these posts would be read a whole lot less, a whole lot fewer people from the target audience of these posts would learn something about Hubzilla, and a whole lot more people would block me.

And most of the hashtags at the end are for triggering filters.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost

Fri, 22 Mar 2024 02:22:44 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Freedom: Learn & Care 4 Others You do realise that I've intentionally cut this up into those little chunkies?

I normally wouldn't have to. I could post so many characters that Mastodon rejects my post, and Mastodon only rejects posts over 100,000 characters.

The reason why I chose to cut this post up is because not few Mastodon users refuse to read anything over 500 characters. And they may pretty well be part of the very target audience of these posts.

Fri, 22 Mar 2024 19:37:48 +0100

tallship

tallship@zotum.net

OMG!

@Jupiter Rowland wrote:

> I've been around Mastodon users a lot. And I know that many of them absolutely refuse to read anything over 500 characters. Some actually mute or even block anyone from whom they find a post with over 500 characters in their federated timeline.

This actually tops everything else I thought were the funniest things I've seen in the past couple of weeks, ... And yet these same Mastotron acolytes will 1/17, 2/17, 3/17 hellthread until the proverbial, cows come home, without regard for others across the Fediverse (or the knowledge that this isn't "TCP" (those segments may arrive out of sequence and be displayed that way in the streams of others, losing coherency), who happen upon the middle of their hellthreads - in the most egregious, and gregarious, display of narcissism.

The irony of all that, is that they're actually heralding their dissatisfaction with the mastopub platform, while refusing to simply migrate to a Fediverse ecosystem that will not only support, but embrace their penchant for long-form posting. IANAP (substitute 'lawyer' for 'psychologist'), but that might be a form of passive-agressive behavior, if I'm not mistaken (which I often am).

Even in just the past two years, before the next generation of Mike's list of evolutionary social networking contributions/creations culminating to date with Streams streams

Public domain federated communications server. Provides a feature rich ActivityPub and Nomad communication node.

, there's several platforms supporting the mastopub subset of capabilities that extend far beyond those confining limitations - the Misskey and Pleroma families of forks, Mitra, and Socialhome, for example of just a few.

Even remaining within that mastopub product line, several forks have over the years gained such levels of popularity as to virtually obviate masto; forks such as Glitch-Soc and Hometown, are just a couple of the most recent, with `@glade`'s "Mastodo" being a much earlier example of forks bourne of a frustration emanating from the disregard by the masto devs to do little more than dismiss repeated requests for the most basic of additional features enjoyed by the platforms just mentioned above (and everything in the lineage of "Mistpark's" evolutionary trail of breadcrumbs).

Well... @Jupiter Rowland , thank you very much for your treatise of the comparisons of capabilities between many of the features that are simply native to Hubzilla, in your article here:
https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?mid=92d30357-bf1d-4c69-ab89-7e1853481ce0

Mike's not really great at highlighting his own remarkable contributions other than to give mention to them - certainly not covering the historical transcendence of them in a genealogical way, for those who didn't take the time to delve into them before there was even such a thing as masto. As for myself, I remember working with Red Matrix (and I can't remember if that came before, or after "Red"), not quite grasping it fully, yet at the same time being fully aware that this was really something; so I'm really glad that some step up and elaborate on those visionary accomplishments with more than just passing mentions.

There was one more thing, seeing how you're apparently a gamer. I am not. At all. In fact the last "games" I recall playing was an old EGA version of Risk on 3.5" floppies and I believe SIM City 2000, back in the early 1990's. After about 18hrs of being consumed with the obsession of doing more than just treading water, with 30 minutes to go before an important business meeting that was over 45 minutes away (and not having even yet showered), it became clear to me that I needed to swear off gaming forever.

Since then, there was an occasion when I was called upon to accept an engineering (sysadmin) contract for a gaming company called Linden Labs. My pimp (that's what I call headhunters) had related to me that she thought they were a gaming company, so in performing my due dilligence, I created a Second Life account, knowing I would be asked about it in any subsequent interview, and indeed they did ask what my handle/uid was in the game, which of course I was able to respond to in the affirmative. I could basically walk around, turn around, or even fly from one scene to another, but was able to get the gist of the community by standing near people hanging out.

After that, my job had nothing to do with the game - just spinning up and managing servers for them, but I was correct in thinking that having a character in the game was a prerequisite to securing the gig, lolz, ... hang on, ... Okay just checked, I actually still have that account, and noticed two groups I had joined, lolz - 'Laguna Nude Beach' and 'Club Rock', wow. I guess that game is still in the mainstream.

Well anyway, thanks again for your in depth coverage of Hubzilla, Hubs, and the differently abled levels of support, graceful degradation, or complete lack of support, that other platforms afford their users. Personally, I'm quite comfortable with mastopub butchering and dropping much of the content that I might choose to share with the Fedi from more feature complete instances and hubs, from my PoV, it only serves to encourage the userbase of masto accounts to migrate to better, or at least, more accommodating and capable platforms by demonstrating just how crippled that behemoth is by comparison.

#tallship #Red_Matrix #Red #Mistpark #Friendika #Hubzilla #Streams #gplus #Faceplant #FOSS #Fediverse #zot6 #Nomad #diaspora* #OStatus #ActivityPub You can haz #Cheezburgerz! 🍔 h/t to @Yohan Yuki Xieㆍ사요한・謝雪矢 @Yohan Yuki Xieㆍ사요한・謝雪矢 (Yuki) for his contributions to your article :)

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Fri, 22 Mar 2024 22:34:20 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Fri, 22 Mar 2024 22:34:19 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@tallship

The irony of all that, is that they're actually heralding their dissatisfaction with the mastopub platform, while refusing to simply migrate to a Fediverse ecosystem that will not only support, but embrace their penchant for long-form posting. IANAP (substitute 'lawyer' for 'psychologist'), but that might be a form of passive-agressive behavior, if I'm not mistaken (which I often am).

It seems to be more of a case of there not being a way to move instances or even projects that's as easy as joining Mastodon using the official mobile app. In other words, even easier than moving instances on Hubzilla or (streams).

I often discover posts in which Mastodon users demand certain new features on Mastodon. Either I tell them that these features have been readily available elsewhere in the Fediverse. But what they actually want is to have these features on the very instance they're on right now. Activated by default so they don't have to do that themselves.

Mike's not really great at highlighting his own remarkable contributions other than to give mention to them - certainly not covering the historical transcendence of them in a genealogical way, for those who didn't take the time to delve into them before there was even such a thing as masto.

Yeah, that's quite a bit of a pity. And it may be a reason why people keep re-inventing his wheels.

Bluesky and Solid are both quite superfluous, seeing as they both seem to be trying something that Hubzilla has mastered better than what their intention is. But as it stands now, Hubzilla is still very obscure. I remember a recent poll in which three out of four participants declared they hadn't even heard of Hubzilla before that poll.

As for myself, I remember working with Red Matrix (and I can't remember if that came before, or after "Red"),

AFAIK, it was first named Friendica Red, that was right after it was forked. I think it became Red, from spanish la red = the network, when it had been re-written against Zot. And it might have become the Red Matrix because marketing something simply named Red doesn't work too well.

There was one more thing, seeing how you're apparently a gamer.

Not so much, actually. If anything, it's usually FLOSS games, some of which I compile from sources.

And most users of Second Life and OpenSim will firmly deny that either is a game because both lack typical things that'd make them games. There's no goal, nothing that you have to achieve, no defined challenges. The lack of all this actually irritates young people who come to Second Life in expectation of an MMO like World of Warcraft. They log in and discover there's nothing telling them what to do. It's so off-putting that they never log in again.

I don't know if you've read my OpenSim explanation article yet. Essentially, it's an open-source, decentralised re-implementation of the very same technology. Both even mostly use the same third-party viewers, also because OpenSim doesn't have an official viewer of its own.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta